<sup>The following is a transcript of a live interview conducted by Jessica Burrows.

The interview uncovers the truth behind the case between ASIC & Mr Jamie McIntyre and details in full the false allegations raised in 2001.  

Please note; Jamie McIntyre & ASIC have settled the matter outside of court in August 2007 after a 5 year long battle.    ASIC could not prove any of the allegations in court.

THE FACTS BEHIND THE ASIC VS JAMIE McINTYRE</sup>

So what happened next?

Well, when ASIC discovered that what we were doing as an education company breaks no laws, they wouldn't admit they raided us for no verifiable reason.

So they had to find something, anything to justify the costs of launching an investigation into me and avoid the embarrassment of coming up empty handed to their superiors.

At the time I and 14 investors had loaned money to one of my companies, a measly amount of $290,000 in total to rent shares in the Australian Stock Market.

A perfectly legal and normal thing to do.

I was trading this money in the market and it was none of ASICs business what 14 individuals and I do with our own money.

They made false allegations the money was an illegal investment scheme as I hadn't lodged a prospectus with them.

Despite having phoned ASIC myself before I started the company to ensure I didn't need to lodge one.

They referred me to section 708 of Corporations Law which states that if you are raising less than $2million inside a 12month period and less than 20 investors, then a prospectus isn't needed.

Thus it wasn't an illegal investment scheme and really none of ASICs business.

However they forced me to shut it down immediately and this was just after September 11th, 2001 when the share market had crashed.

So I explained if I closed out the share positions now it would cause about $130,000 in losses to myself and investors, which is unnecessary as the market would recover, I believed by December 2001 and we will happily agree to close it down then even though we dispute we need to.

And I was correct as the market did recover by Dec 2001.

So you're saying all this was over $290,000 invested in the share market which ASIC demanded you shut down?

Absolutely.

So I told ASIC it will cause losses and the investors and I would sue ASIC for those losses.

Well this was probably not a smart move, as ASIC like to intimidate individuals and didn't like a 29 year old millionaire defiantly standing up to a Government body.

So what happened next?

I said to resolve the matter I would put some of my real estate up as security to allow the share trades to be wound down in an orderly fashion and would close it down in 60 days. This will prevent any losses and if I'm wrong I've personally put up real estate, so if you're concerned for the investors' money, they can't lose.

That sounds like you were willing to resolve the matter in commercial terms.
What did ASIC say to that?

The ASIC investigator I was dealing with was a guy called Stephen Glynn, who was an ex police detective and treated me like a criminal and also, I believe had a vendetta to destroy me, especially when I threatened that I and my investors would sue him and ASIC if they close the company down and cause losses to us.

So ASIC wouldn't listen or consider resolving this in a fair way whatsoever despite my willingness to resolve the matter and protect my investors' monies.

Why do you think that was?

I think it's purely because they had an agenda and ulterior motive.

They wanted to destroy my companies and career, as I was part of the wealth education industry which they didn't like.

Also think about ..

Here is a guy in ASIC, Stephen Glynn, maybe earning $60k a year and I'm in my twenties and a self made millionaire.

That alone creates a lot of jealousy and in Australia it appears to be a national past-time for Government employees to destroy the careers of successful entrepreneurs.

It's how they make a name for themselves and get promoted.

So you're saying it's a Tall Poppy thing?

Partly, plus they were targeting the wealth seminar industry, so they wanted to appear to have made progress and shut me and others down.

So I believe to this day they deliberately wanted to close the company down to create losses to investors and blame me for it.

I mean let's not hide the truth

Stephen Glynn was telling all sorts of lies to the investors, such as McIntyre has lost all your money, he has spent it and even bought his wife a new car with it and is planning to flee the country.

I mean completely outrageous lies that were defamatory and blatant deception.

How did you react to that?

I was understandably upset and this now was personal and my good name was being tarnished by a dodgy Government employee.

I grew up on a farm and in small communities people tend to be very honest and trustworthy, so I was perhaps naive to think Government Employees working for ASIC would be always honest and ethical.

Up until then I guess I was naive that Government Departments were honest ethical organisations and only ever fair and reasonable.

I was shocked by their behaviour, but this was nothing to what lay ahead.

So what happened next?

ASIC forced the closure of the brokerage account trading the monies immediately and I had to sell the shares straight away at the bottom of the market for $130,000 loss.

Come six weeks later, I could have sold the shares in early December for no loss and a decent profit like I did on my personal trading account that had the same positions open.

So now I had proof ASIC caused losses, so I decided that what I'd do is pay back the investors the money ASIC lost and then on behalf of the investors sue ASIC for the losses.

I informed ASIC of the repayments being made to the investors of the losses and my intention to sue.

I faxed proof, even to Stephen Glynn at ASIC, on numerous occasions of payments being made to investors, so he could never say otherwise.

I also lodged a complaint with ASIC regrading Stephen Glynn's behaviour and demanded an investigation into his conduct.

It sounds like appalling behaviour from Mr Glynn and ASIC.
So what happened next?

Nothing, for several months.

Then in March 2002, unbeknown to me, Stephen Glynn snuck off to the Brisbane Supreme Court and presented affidavits to Judge Ambrose behind my back, seeking Mareeva injunctions against myself personally, all my entire companies and my wife.

What's a Mareeva injunction?

And why did they do this considering you were repaying the investors voluntarily despite ASIC deliberately loosing the money, not you?

A Mareeva injunction is the worst possible action that can ever be taken.

It's an extreme and rarely should be used.

It basically means the freezing of all your assets and in this case mine and my wife's passports as well.

You mean they froze all your assets and took your passports over the $290,000 matter?
Isn't that somewhat excessive?

Absolutely.

Not only was it excessive, it was completely unnecessary.

And I believe only because I'd reported Stephen Glynn's conduct, he was now more than ever determined to destroy me, even if it meant abusing ASICs power.

I've read how you claim ASIC allegedly deceived the Supreme Court.
What evidence do you have to support that?

Lots.

Glynn, in his affidavit which is a public court document now thus provides evidence of his deliberate deception of Judge Ambrose, stated effectively that "McIntyre was running an illegal investment scheme and had lost investors' monies, had refused to repay investors and was a threat to flee the country", amongst other defamatory and false allegations.

Is that for real?
Are you saying ASIC behave this way?

Absolutely.
It's a public court document.
In black and white.

That's what Judge Ambrose was told, despite the facts being:

1. I was fully co-operating with ASIC since day one.

2. I was never a threat to flee the country.

I mean why?

I'd done nothing wrong and had used my own personal money to repay investors for ASIC losses.

3. I hadn't lost investors' monies, ASIC had.

4. Whether the $290,000 in the company invested in the share market was an illegal investment scheme or not, was not proven and according to section 708 of Corporations law clearly wasn't.

And even if it was, the actions taken by ASIC were excessive and never necessary and a complete abuse of power to destroy me and my companies.

So the Judge obviously approved the freezing of your assets?

Yes.

But the Judge's comments were to effect:

"I'm reluctant to order such excessive restrictions, however I will temporarily, in the interim, until both parties can come back before the court and argue the matter and on the basis there will be sufficient evidence from ASIC to support these allegations."

And ASIC deliberately went to court the day before Easter, so I wouldn't be able to go to court the next day and tell the Judge it's a load of lies and to remove the order.

So how were you feeling now and what happened next?

As you can imagine, I was furious and in shock that ASIC could lie so blatantly to a Judge and seem to think they'd get away with it as if they do this on a weekly basis.

I mean so much for a model litigator.

To make matters worse, the freezing order froze all my bank accounts.

ASIC informed the media and now, across the country, Newspapers were telling the public ASIC has shut down McIntyre Group of companies over an alleged Investment Scheme etc. And I was effectively made out to have been a criminal.

They informed all my bankers.

They froze rental payments from tenants so investment property loans on our property portfolio couldn't be paid in a deliberate attempt to bankrupt my wife and I.

They allowed my wife and I only a few hundred dollars a day to live on and then delayed allowing access to this for months.

They requested our passports be handed over.

And to make matters worse, they limited funds to $10,000 maximum, in which we could pay lawyers to defend ourselves, knowing we then wouldn't be able to suitably defend the baseless allegations, ensuring they win.

My barrister quit immediately.

Mainly because he said it would cost $50,000 in the first week alone to prepare to go to court and hundreds of thousands to defend, which I didn't have as it was frozen.

Plus many barristers won't defend against ASIC because ASIC dishes out a lot of work to the same barristers which is easy money, so most Barristers have a conflict of interest and don't defend against ASIC out of fear of losing lucrative work in the future and many just don't have any guts to stand up to ASIC.

ASIC play this card a lot which is so unethical.

Plus ASIC also know which judges are the softest to get things through and deliberately go to court on certain days to get a Judge that is more sympathetic to ASIC to push though suspect tactics such as this.

This must have been enormously stressful. Not just for you but for your wife.

How did she deal with it?

Yes it was immensely stressful and especially for her as an innocent party.

Glynn had also stated malicious lies about her in his affidavits which caused her a lot of pain.

I mean the guy is so lucky, as at the Supreme Court in later weeks when he was there, I was so close to re-arranging his face and I still regret to this day I didn't.

I realised that may not be an appropriate way to deal with matters, but growing up playing rugby league, it's a mans way to deal with someone that is blatantly trying to destroy you.

I hear that you and your wife separated in 2004. Did the ASIC attacks on you and her contribute to that?

Absolutely.

Initially it made us stronger, but as the years dragged on and ASIC just continued with new ways to destroy us and make more and more false allegations, it took a huge toll on her and her family and I believe it was the biggest cause of our marriage break up.

So you not only had your business and career almost destroyed by the actions of one man in ASIC, but you lost your marriage as well.

Unfortunately yes.

So how did you manage to deal with this and re-build your companies and career?

It was immensely difficult.

However it made me very determined.

I said to myself, I will rebuild my companies to become as large and successful as possible, as success, they say, is the greatest revenge and hopefully one day I'll see justice done and my name cleared and Stephen Glynn and ASIC held to account.

Plus my dream and passion for creating a modern day 21st Century Education and the fact that I was so committed to that mission, I said I'm not going to let a dodgy, jealous insignificant Government employee, nor any Government department stop me from realising my dream and vision.

So you're saying it actually made you stronger, which has led to your enormous success today?

Absolutely.

But it wasn't easy.

ASIC didn't stop after the court case in 2002. They were determined to destroy me completely, especially as I had the hide to stand up to them.

I set up a website called www.responsetoasicallegations.com.au to have some way of highlighting the truth, especially as the media generally only write what ASIC tell them on their press releases and don't generally have the guts to challenge their mistruths.

So what else did ASIC do after the initial freezing of your assets?

They then proceeded to have my companies wound up.

Despite the companies being solvent on a technicality, the Judge wound them up, as because they were frozen, technically they were insolvent.

Also some of the investors I'd repaid hadn't banked all the cheques, so ASIC even froze them and wouldn't allow investors to be completely repaid, even from money I'd paid to cover the losses ASIC caused.

And to show how low ASIC will go.. They then applied to the courts for any monies in the companies to go to them to pay their fees spent destroying me and for the liquidators excessive fees they'd had appointed instead of investors monies, which they froze from the ones that hadn't banked their cheques, from monies I'd repaid them.

You mean ASIC were trying to take the money effectively from investors to pay themselves?

Yes

And did they get away with it?

No.

I spent years and in many cases defending myself at court against ASICs highly paid barristers and was able to have the courts prevent ASIC exploiting the monies for themselves and their friendly liquidators. I mean how dodgy can a Government department be to effectively try and steal money from investors, when it's their duty to protect them?

And then ASIC and the liquidators had a falling out, as ASIC wouldn't pay the liquidators' fees.

Which I thought was quite funny.

However ASIC didn't stop at that.

They then planned to go back to court to try and have me banned as a Director of companies for 5 years. As a Director of over a dozen companies, this would have ended my career.

Plus, they then made new allegations and attempted to ban my best-selling book: "What I Didn't Learn At School But Wish I Had". One of the chapters was on the Share market, which they wanted banned as at the time I wasn't licensed, despite not needing to be.

So you are saying ASIC wanted your book to be banned because it talked about shares... Isn't that unheard of?!

Yes.

Somewhat ridiculous, but remember they had failed to prove any wrong doing against me so far, so now they were desperate to do something to destroy me because their attempts before had still not stopped me, despite causing massive damage.

They also said I couldn't teach about the Share market in live seminars without being licensed.

Despite the licensing laws being created for Financial Planners, who sell investments, not for Financial Educators, who educate and don't sell investments or give advice.

However ASIC rarely care what the laws actually are.

So my lawyers simply went to a bookstore and bought every business and investing book there was.

And told them if my book was to be banned for me not being a licensed Financial advisor, then that would mean the entire business section in bookstores would have to be banned immediately..

Plus, they highlighted Professors at Universities will no longer be able to mention the Share market without becoming licensed.

And what about all other seminar presenters who aren't licensed?

Actually, in fact, a neighbour will not be able to give a stock tip to their neighbour without a license, according to ASICs ludicrous interpretation of the laws.

It simply highlighted ASICs nonsense, so they quickly requested we settle out of court to avoid losing the case.

This means they knew they'd lose the case in the courts.

So you had some success?

Sort of. But once again, by now, the simple allegations that my book and my seminars might be banned had hit ASIC websites and then media around the country run stories on it causing, once again, irreparable damage to my name and companies. And in New Zealand, I was on the Prime News.

Despite the truth being all I had to do was amend one chapter in my book and not cover Share topics in live seminars, unless I became licensed.

So I simply became licensed, which I have been for many years and my companies actually own two ASFSL licenses now.

ASIC once again proved nothing, but raised allegations without substance and severely damaged my career again.

And still to this day, ASIC have the old articles which misled the public that my seminars were shut down etc despite it not being true. So regarding the case they started in 2001 and Judge Ambrose saying he'd temporarily freeze your companies... Did ASIC ever come back to the courts with the evidence Judge Ambrose was looking for to justify their actions?

Absolutely not.

ASIC, for 5 years were unable to provide any suitable evidence to support their claims.

Just large piles of paper to make it look like they had all this evidence.

So you're saying they never proved the allegations against you in court?

No never.

But few know this because, once again, old ASIC articles on the website don't highlight this, but just highlight the allegations.

Whatever happened to being innocent until being proven guilty?

Exactly.

So what eventually happened is in 2007 ASIC approached me to settle the matter out of court with a condition I don't sue them.

They'd just lost the case against my wife and were ordered to pay her costs.

So they were admitting they were wrong?

No they'd never admit that.

But if ASIC thought they'd win, they'd pursue it.

I think they were afraid if it went to court I'd expose the dodgy tactics ASIC used against me and their abuse of power and it would publicly embarrass them, so they caved in and settled.

So a victory for you, in some way?

Definitely, however it doesn't repair the damage done to my good name, or doesn't restore the old companies destroyed and it doesn't repair my marriage. And the frustrating thing is ASIC still have the old articles on their website so when someone searches my name they still come up, which defames me wrongly and unfairly to this day.

ASICs defamation has cost me tens of millions of dollars in lost business deals easily in the last 7 years alone.

What can be done to change that?

I'm not sure.

I recently wrote a letter to ASIC about this, asking them to be removed and I am also writing a letter to Prime Minister Rudd asking for a Government Apology, but I won't hold my breath. However Kevin has become famous for saying sorry on behalf of past Governments, so maybe there's a chance.

I'm not asking them for millions in compensation, even though I'd be entitled to it. I'm just asking for a simple apology.

So despite ASICs attempts to destroy you over many years, I'm surprised you have been able to create such extraordinary success and impact over 250,000 peoples' lives. Share with us some of your success since 2001.

After the ASIC actions I decided to start new companies, but build them even larger and more successful... To such a point where the 21st Century Group eventually expanded to over 100 staff and more than a dozen companies, including 21st Century Accounting, 21st Century Finance, 21st Century Broking, 21st Century Property, 21st Century Education, E-Minis Global and a capital raising companies amongst other private companies and a large group of rural companies that breed cattle and sheep.

Last year the Group turned over $35million and I was preparing to list on the ASX for between $70million to $100million Market Value before aborting the plan a month before listing, due to the Global Credit Crisis and stock market crash and my desire to remain as a private group of companies.

Since 2001 I've also written 7 books, including a best-seller, which are all in bookstores and I started 21st Century Charity Foundation to raise money for numerous charities. I recently Founded and became the President for Financial Educator's Association and founded World Solutions Institute amongst other things.

That's remarkable considering the battles you've had to overcome with ASIC amongst all that and I'm sure most people have no idea the struggle you went through while building all these companies. And your speaking career also took off during this time?

Yes I'm blessed I have a career I'm passionate about and spend most of my time with my Education Company, as I believe this is where I can have the most impact long term.

I measure my success by how many people I help, so that's something I'll always keep doing as people are so grateful for the impact on their lives.

So what's next for Jamie McIntyre?

My goal in 2009 has been to slow down, enjoy life more and spend more time with family. I love escaping to my rural farms.

I'm continuing to grow my companies and grow my speaking career as I'm a passionate entrepreneur and have to remain highly active.

Dealing with the Global Credit Crisis as an entrepreneur has been very challenging and has also made me a better entrepreneur.

I've also had the chance to meet with and learn from business mentors such as Richard Branson and several other billionaires who I've learnt a lot from in recent times.

My biggest goal is to get a modern day education for life taught in all schools including a Financial Education, which Richard Branson has put his endorsement behind my efforts. And I'm launching 21st Century Teenage 2 Day Summit for free on the first weekend of December 2009 (5th and 6th) at the Gold Coast Convention Centre and inviting top Australian Business Leaders to share their stories with teenagers and teach valuable life and financial skills.

This is something I'm very excited about.

Ultimately achieving a modern education at schools would be the greatest impact, long term, I can have on this country.

Sounds like you have a lot to do!
Thank you for sharing your story.
I wish you well on your goal with helping teenagers and that you continue to be a success in your career.

You're welcome.